Joy of Reinvention

Laura Clise: After more than five years of talking
about wanting a resource like

Laura Clise: Intentionalist to exist, maybe even
complaining that it hadn't been built yet,

Laura Clise: there comes a point where you either
decide to do something or you shut up.

Joy Chik: Welcome back to The Joy of Reinvention.

Joy Chik: I've come to believe that reinvention
isn't random.

Joy Chik: The people who successfully transform
their lives, whether in business,

Joy Chik: leadership, or life itself, tend to move
through the same journey.

Joy Chik: It begins with a knowing moment, the
realization that something has to change,

Joy Chik: and that insight is followed by the
decision to choose a different path,

Joy Chik: often with uncertainty and the risk.

Joy Chik: Today,

Joy Chik: I'd like to explore a simple but powerful
question: What if what we build

Joy Chik: builds us?

Joy Chik: Whether we are building a company, a
career, a family, or a community,

Joy Chik: the process of creating something
meaningful has a way of changing us in

Joy Chik: return, and I'm joined today by someone
who knows that journey super well.

Joy Chik: Laura Clise is the founder and the CEO of
Intentionalist,

Joy Chik: a Seattle-based company that helps people
discover and support the local

Joy Chik: businesses at the heart of their
communities.

Joy Chik: For years, she's been building more than
just a business.

Joy Chik: She's been building trust, belonging, and
connection, one business owner,

Joy Chik: one customer, and one relationship at a
time.

Joy Chik: Laura, thank you so much for being here
with me.

Laura Clise: I'm super excited to join you for this
conversation.

Joy Chik: So tell us,

Joy Chik: what does Intentionalist really do, and
how does it work?

Laura Clise: So Intentionalist encourages and
incentivizes all of us to spend like it

Laura Clise: matters—

Joy Chik: I love that bag, by the way.

Laura Clise: Thank you.

Laura Clise: At local small businesses like QueenCare
in the Central District,

Laura Clise: and also invites us to learn about the
inspiring people and stories behind the

Laura Clise: small businesses that shape our
communities.

Laura Clise: I remember the first time that I met
Monika Mathews,

Laura Clise: who's the founder of QueenCare, and this
actually is one of my favorite

Laura Clise: products because—

Laura Clise: as a founder, self-care is often an
afterthought, if it's a thought at all.

Laura Clise: And yet this lavender aromatherapy brown
sugar scrub is in my shower, and for 30

Laura Clise: seconds every morning, I can breathe it
in, I can recenter, and it's,

Laura Clise: it's like a spa.

Laura Clise: But the first time that I met Monika
Mathews, the founder of QueenCare,

Laura Clise: I was so excited because while QueenCare
is a natural body care product

Laura Clise: company, the reason that she started her
business was to support her nonprofit,

Laura Clise: Life Enrichment Group, which for the past
20-plus years has been serving King

Laura Clise: County youth of color.

Laura Clise: So as I think about why Intentionalist
matters,

Laura Clise: it's because people like Monica and
companies like QueenCare are stories we

Laura Clise: need to know, and places that we should
appreciate for the way that they take

Laura Clise: care of our

Laura Clise: communities.

Joy Chik: I love that.

Joy Chik: You don't know just the, the business, but
also the owners,

Joy Chik: the creators behind it.

Joy Chik: So how does Intentionalist, uh, help them?

Laura Clise: So it starts with our online directory
that makes it easy for all of us to find

Laura Clise: and learn about small businesses in our
communities owned by women,

Laura Clise: people of color, families, immigrants,
veterans, people with disabilities,

Laura Clise: members of the LGBTQ community, and in our
exploration,

Laura Clise: get to know the people behind them.

Laura Clise: So we help local businesses like QueenCare,
first of all, through discovery.

Laura Clise: But because we want people to spend like
it matters,

Laura Clise: we also believe that it's important to
participate in facilitating or

Laura Clise: incentivizing spending. And to do that,
Intentionalist partners with

Laura Clise: companies, nonprofit, and local government
to cover the cost of promotional

Laura Clise: incentives that are that little nudge that
so many of us appreciate to get us

Laura Clise: through the door.

Joy Chik: That's awesome.

Joy Chik: Laura, you are the exact person I wanted
to talk to today because the other

Joy Chik: day, I had this knowing moment, which is
building this podcast without the

Joy Chik: machine.

Joy Chik: The thing I realized is back when I'm at
Microsoft, I had a whole team,

Joy Chik: and frankly, army of teams to work on our
product.

Joy Chik: And then we already, uh, being Microsoft
is such a global brand,

Joy Chik: had a all built-in audience.

Joy Chik: This podcast, on the contrary, I'm not a
celebrity.

Joy Chik: You know, I have reputation, but outside
of Microsoft, it's not like I'm known.

Joy Chik: So launching the podcast is very much a
wow, how do I acquire the audience?

Joy Chik: And frankly, especially as I'm, you know,
leaving Microsoft,

Joy Chik: it becomes... People don't have to listen
to me anymore.

Joy Chik: I don't hold the title. I don't have the
position of power.

Joy Chik: Building without that giant sort of
machinery that's already, that behind you,

Joy Chik: I feel both daunting, it humbles me.

Joy Chik: At Intentionalist, you started this years
ago.

Joy Chik: So why you start this whole project?

Laura Clise: What you just shared about starting
something on your own is enormous.

Laura Clise: It is daunting, it is scary, and it's
exactly what I experienced as well.

Laura Clise: I came from corporate sustainability,
corporate social responsibility,

Laura Clise: and it used to be the case that I would
convene a cross-functional team.

Laura Clise: And when you're building something without
the corporate machinery,

Laura Clise: it's a completely different endeavor.

Laura Clise: The

Laura Clise: knowing moments that led me to found
Intentionalist started with this piece of

Laura Clise: fabric in my pocket. Um, it was woven by a
group of artisans in Cambodia.

Laura Clise: For me, this represents the reality that
the value of the things that we buy is

Laura Clise: so much more than the thing itself.

Joy Chik: 100%.

Laura Clise: I was in Southeast Asia looking to immerse
myself in the local culture,

Laura Clise: and the question that I was asking myself
at the time was,

Laura Clise: "How might the decisions that I make
provide me with a more authentic

Laura Clise: experience and benefit real people in the
communities that I'm visiting?"

Laura Clise: So that was when the seed that would
become Intentionalist was planted back in

Laura Clise: 2012. The idea that the

Laura Clise: decisions that we make about where we
spend our money shape the world around us

Laura Clise: and also influence the way that we
experience that world.

Joy Chik: So you really see back in 2012 that you
cared about the impact that

Joy Chik: Intentionalist can bring.

Joy Chik: So you started with that purpose, the
sense of impact.

Joy Chik: And then you really just start by... We
build because you cared. Yeah. Right?

Joy Chik: Similarly, I start a podcast. I start it
because I cared, but we're not ready.

Joy Chik: So speaking of not ready, it took you six
years before you even launched the

Joy Chik: company.

Laura Clise: Yes.

Joy Chik: So tell me what that not readiness felt
like,

Joy Chik: especially we both left the big machinery
of that corporation behind.

Laura Clise: I wasn't sure that I wanted to be an
entrepreneur.

Laura Clise: At the beginning, I was just waiting

Laura Clise: for somebody else to create it.

Laura Clise: I was in a career that I loved in a field
focused on global impact,

Laura Clise: and I thought surely someone will create
what I'm looking for,

Laura Clise: but the impact opportunity grew too big to
ignore,

Laura Clise: and because I ran out of excuses not to
try.

Laura Clise: The reality is that Intentionalist is a
company that reflects the change that I

Laura Clise: want to be in the world. It's less about
the product. It's about the idea that—

Laura Clise: through daily spending, we can connect
with, get to know,

Laura Clise: and be in community with people who are
incredibly inspiring.

Joy Chik: So Laura, it's interesting you said that
you are a

Joy Chik: reluctant founder.

Laura Clise: Yes.

Joy Chik: So you basically just said that you were
just trying to see if anybody but you

Joy Chik: should build this.

Joy Chik: But at some point, you're like, "Well, now
somebody should build this.

Joy Chik: I need to build this." So tell me more.
How did you lead...

Joy Chik: How led to that decision?

Laura Clise: After more than five years of talking
about wanting a resource like

Laura Clise: Intentionalist to exist, maybe even
complaining that it hadn't been built yet,

Laura Clise: there comes a point where I believe you
either decide to do something or you

Laura Clise: shut up.

Joy Chik: So is that your knowing moment? At w—

Joy Chik: some point you just like, you click to
say, "That's it. That is my calling."

Laura Clise: If you have a

Laura Clise: passionate vision about how to close the
gap between the world as it is and the

Laura Clise: world that you say you want, that there's
a responsibility to, to take action.

Laura Clise: Small businesses were a part of the
solution to so many of the things that were

Laura Clise: keeping me awake at night, and a part of
so many of the things that I think

Laura Clise: bring joy and purpose and connection and
belonging to all of us.

Joy Chik: You know, that really resonate.

Joy Chik: I feel like, okay, I built this huge
Microsoft security identity business,

Joy Chik: but something inside me is I want to have
different kind of impact—

Laura Clise: Mm-hmm.

Joy Chik: And I want to have different kind of
challenge.

Joy Chik: What's calling to me was trying to start
something from zero to one,

Joy Chik: to work with more the, you know, the early
stage startup,

Joy Chik: because that's what energized me.

Joy Chik: I think at that knowing moment of wanting
to

Joy Chik: do something different eventually became
loud enough, so we jumped. Which is—

Laura Clise: Yes.

Joy Chik: We jump before we're ready, right? And it
take that courage to do that.

Joy Chik: We're trying to leave the machinery
behind.

Joy Chik: How do we transition to, you know, then
build your business one business at a

Joy Chik: time—

Laura Clise: Mm-hmm.

Joy Chik: One customer at a time. How do you do
that?

Laura Clise: I literally started by walking
neighborhoods and having conversations.

Laura Clise: And I mean, I guess in startup terms,
looking to validate my hypotheses.

Laura Clise: What I also wanted to be sure of, though,

Laura Clise: was that it was something that resonated
with small businesses.

Joy Chik: I went from corporate executive to become,
I call a hustler.

Joy Chik: And I, in a, in a actually positive way.

Laura Clise: Yeah.

Joy Chik: Which me... I mean, to me a hustler, like,
you know, you

Joy Chik: hustle, but to me it's more, more
intentionally building relationship.

Joy Chik: Like you said, not being transactional.
And you, we have to wear multiple hats.

Joy Chik: So the scale is different, like you said,
right?

Laura Clise: Yes.

Joy Chik: You have to go walk to, you know, each
store, so talk to every owner.

Joy Chik: So did you have that reckoning of from
large scale to now one business at a

Joy Chik: time, and how that felt?

Joy Chik: And, you know, how do you overcome or
still working through that?

Laura Clise: I didn't leave my corporate role to do
something small. Right?

Laura Clise: That's the ego in it.

Laura Clise: I mean, and truthfully, when I was
starting Intentionalist, the vision was,

Laura Clise: and on some level still is, to shift
culture.

Laura Clise: And yet I think that while there's nothing
wrong with that,

Laura Clise: one of the things that I've learned along
the way is that in some ways it's

Laura Clise: arrogant and disrespectful to the very
tangible,

Laura Clise: measurable ways that small businesses
affect and care for our communities for

Laura Clise: me to define success in such global
systems changing ways.

Laura Clise: It isn't that there's anything wrong with
that,

Laura Clise: but in staying focused on that as the
metric or barometer of whether or not I'm

Laura Clise: successful—

Joy Chik: I love that, Laura.

Joy Chik: And you just reminded me, remember the
dinner that you, Nicole, Tom,

Joy Chik: and I went to back, back in the winter a
few months ago, Camellia? At Camellia.

Joy Chik: You know, I loved about is when we went
there, you honestly,

Joy Chik: I felt like with a celebrity, because the,
the chef came out and, uh,

Joy Chik: hugged you, and I, I don't know, there's
just so many people just come out to

Joy Chik: like, "Ah, Laura," and I think they,

Joy Chik: not only they just didn't know you, but,
uh,

Joy Chik: the way from my lens is I saw they
genuinely appreciate you.

Joy Chik: What I see is the community therefore you
created, the people you touched,

Joy Chik: whether business or whether it's
individual.

Joy Chik: And that intention, that curation, is
something,

Joy Chik: not something like we from corporate lens,
because it's all about scale.

Laura Clise: Mm-hmm.

Joy Chik: It is all about the number.

Joy Chik: So and that's kinda these days, you know,
I think when I started the podcast,

Joy Chik: I started with saying, "Oh, what's the,"
you know,

Joy Chik: I think earlier we even chatted, what's
the downloads, right?

Joy Chik: But what stayed with me, frankly, is when
I received it,

Joy Chik: whether an email or a LinkedIn message,
you know,

Joy Chik: some listener told me how an episode
resonated with them,

Joy Chik: how the particular message make them to
think about where they are in their

Joy Chik: career. Should they go reinvent? Uh,

Joy Chik: the fact that somebody actually made the
decision while they were struggling

Joy Chik: for years, if not, uh, months.

Joy Chik: Um, so in today, I think at the scale
that's different from corporate is you,

Joy Chik: we build one community, one person, one
business at a time.

Joy Chik: Which leads me to think, how do you
redefine your impact through that lens?

Laura Clise: I still dream of greater reach and greater
scale.

Laura Clise: It has taken longer and been harder than I
ever could have imagined.

Laura Clise: And at the same time, it has been more
rewarding than any of the other

Laura Clise: impact-oriented projects that I led over
the years, uh,

Laura Clise: that I was working for large corporations.

Laura Clise: There was a moment a couple of years ago
when the Seattle Seahawks invited

Laura Clise: Intentionalist and a group of small
business owners that are a part of an

Laura Clise: ongoing partnership that we have to a
Seahawks game.

Laura Clise: The small business owners were all brought
out onto the field,

Laura Clise: and you could see their image on the
screen.

Laura Clise: And for me, that recognition, small
business owners as more than just the best

Laura Clise: coffee, the best sundae, the best brunch,
the best manicure,

Laura Clise: but recognition of the ways that they care
for our communities is a reminder

Laura Clise: that while Intentionalist hasn't yet
transcended every national,

Laura Clise: international boundary for the business
owners that experience appreciation

Laura Clise: from the community that is so deserved,

Laura Clise: that's what matters.

Joy Chik: I felt by leaving the machine behind, when
I used to think about impact,

Joy Chik: it's all just scale, but now it's just a
lot more personal as well as frankly

Joy Chik: more meaningful. That it's no longer
measured necessarily by numbers.

Joy Chik: Why we choose to build things that we care
about is what that meaning,

Joy Chik: what's that impact to us, more personal,
uh, in purpose,

Joy Chik: and then go with the heart.

Laura Clise: The reality is that starting something,
whether it's a podcast,

Laura Clise: whether it's a company like Intentionalist,
whether it's a coffee shop,

Laura Clise: is really hard. It's harder than I think
most people can imagine.

Laura Clise: Uh, that's one of the things that I think
has been so humbling,

Laura Clise: like truly humbling about this experience.

Laura Clise: I thought I worked hard before. I've
always been very driven.

Laura Clise: I've always been willing to put in the
hours, put in the travel.

Laura Clise: Being immersed in small business quickly
corrected my understanding of what

Laura Clise: hard work looks like.

Laura Clise: And so if you're going to work that hard,
the question is why,

Laura Clise: and what is going to enable you to persist
through all of the ups and downs and

Laura Clise: doubts and fears?

Joy Chik: Which leads me to actually really think
what we choose to build frankly also

Joy Chik: builds us. 'Cause we talk about how hard
it is to start something from zero.

Laura Clise: Mm-hmm.

Joy Chik: Not having the ambition, especially coming
from corporate,

Joy Chik: have the ambition to be...

Joy Chik: Go big, while we have to do one step,
reach one listener,

Joy Chik: one customer at a time.

Joy Chik: So Laura, so I know both of us, you know,

Joy Chik: the work we choose to build is also
changing us as a

Joy Chik: builder, and all the hard work that leads
to it.

Joy Chik: So what has building Intentionalist
changed you?

Laura Clise: I knew that it would be a lot of hard
work.

Laura Clise: What I wasn't prepared for were the ways
that building Intentionalist would

Laura Clise: require me to confront all of my deepest
fears and insecurities.

Laura Clise: Because ultimately, there is nowhere to
hide.

Joy Chik: You know, through all the years I know
you, I always thought, "Wow,

Joy Chik: Laura has such tenacity, as well as the
confidence." But what you make me

Joy Chik: realize, just, uh...

Joy Chik: I think it's pretty unilateral, whether
you're a successful CEO or high-level

Joy Chik: executive or, or founder.

Joy Chik: I think one thing that's common is we all
have that fear or

Joy Chik: that sort of, you know, self-doubt.

Laura Clise: Deep-seated fear of public failure.

Joy Chik: Yeah. And earlier we talk about, okay, how
do you measure success?

Joy Chik: How to measure outcome?

Joy Chik: Being able to put out the show not knowing
whether there will be a single

Joy Chik: listener want to listen to my podcast, and
to just be okay with it,

Joy Chik: almost like being naked you know?

Joy Chik: Do the show and then not knowing what's
the outcome,

Joy Chik: and that's just something I just have to
be comfortable with the uncomfortable,

Joy Chik: for what it's worth.

Joy Chik: Patience is my number one enemy. Does that
res— is that your problem?

Laura Clise: Yes.

Joy Chik: Does that resonate?

Laura Clise: Building Intentionalist, I have had to let
go of the belief that everything

Laura Clise: that we ship or share is going to be the
very best that I can produce,

Laura Clise: and be a little bit more patient with
myself. The resourcing isn't the

Laura Clise: same, the infrastructure isn't the same,
and for the purpose of what

Laura Clise: Intentionalist is trying to do, pretty
good might be good enough a lot of the

Laura Clise: time.

Joy Chik: I love that, and I feel, you know, what
we're choosing to build,

Joy Chik: it has to be deeply personal, meaningful.

Joy Chik: And along the way, it actually changes us.
It builds us.

Joy Chik: Imperfection maybe itself is a rewarding
by, by its own term,

Joy Chik: and it frankly grow us versus constrained
us.

Joy Chik: So Laura, before I let you go, for all the
audiences who are listening,

Joy Chik: whether they want to reinvent yourse—

Joy Chik: themselves, or starting something new, and
it feels so uncertain,

Joy Chik: and they're afraid what that risk could
be.

Joy Chik: What would you tell them?

Laura Clise: I think that it all starts with

Laura Clise: clarity around what matters. What are you
aiming for?

Laura Clise: Why are you taking the leap, um, and
embarking on the journey?

Laura Clise: And then at the same time, remembering
that approaching whatever it is that you

Laura Clise: are transitioning to with humility will
leave you better off.

Laura Clise: Approaching with genuine curiosity will
leave you better off.

Laura Clise: Remember to also be kind with yourself.

Joy Chik: I remember when I started my journey, and
I tried to define all my goals,

Joy Chik: and I was kept being told by close
friends.

Joy Chik: They said, "Joy, nobody cares besides
yourself,

Joy Chik: so be kind to yourself." So that deeply
resonate with me.

Joy Chik: Thank you so

Joy Chik: much, Laura. I appreciate you.

Joy Chik: And I think I felt like this is the
deepest conversation I had with you with

Joy Chik: all the years I know you. Maybe just
because we—

Laura Clise: You're... No, you're right.

Joy Chik: Because we never spend the time to have
this kind of conversation,

Joy Chik: so I appreciate so much.

Laura Clise: Thank you.

Joy Chik: As I reflected on my conversation with
Laura, I kept returning to the same idea.

Joy Chik: We spend so much time thinking about what
we're creating, the business,

Joy Chik: the podcast, the community.

Joy Chik: We imagine the people it might reach and
the difference it might make,

Joy Chik: but that's only half the story.

Joy Chik: Because every meaningful project quietly
shapes its creator.

Joy Chik: It asks us to stay patient before there is
momentum,

Joy Chik: to keep listening when our first assumptions
are wrong, to build trust without

Joy Chik: demanding it, and to keep going long
before the outside world can see the

Joy Chik: change.

Joy Chik: Laura set out to help people discover and
support the local businesses that

Joy Chik: makes community distinctive.

Joy Chik: But through the work, she has also been
building a different way of leading,

Joy Chik: one rooted in purpose, relationships, and
the long game.

Joy Chik: I started this podcast because I wanted to
explore how we evolve, transform,

Joy Chik: and then reinvent ourselves.

Joy Chik: But the process is also teaching me to
become a creator, to trust my own voice,

Joy Chik: and to measure impact differently.

Joy Chik: Today's conversation left me with three
reminders.

Joy Chik: First, do not wait until you feel ready.

Joy Chik: Purpose often arrives before confidence.

Joy Chik: We begin because something matters, then
the work teaches us how to continue.

Joy Chik: Second, do not underestimate one
relationship.

Joy Chik: Communities and movements are built
through individual moments of trust,

Joy Chik: recognition, and belonging.

Joy Chik: And last but not least, choose work that
changes you for the better.

Joy Chik: Success is not only what the work
produces,

Joy Chik: it is also who you become while doing it.

Joy Chik: And I'll leave you with one question: What
are you building today that is

Joy Chik: quietly building you?

Joy Chik: Because maybe the most meaningful part of
a new chapter is not only what you

Joy Chik: create. Maybe it is who we become through
the courage to create it.

Joy Chik: This is Joy of Reinvention.

Joy Chik: I'm Joy Chik.

Joy Chik: If today's conversation resonated with
you, please subscribe,

Joy Chik: share it with someone who is building a
new chapter,

Joy Chik: and then join our community at
joyofreinvention.com/email.

Joy Chik: And until next time, keep building and
reinventing.