Joy of Reinvention

Ana Pinczuk: There is a pressure to being like the big
boss in some sense,

Ana Pinczuk: that here the big boss is gonna proclaim.

Ana Pinczuk: I think what's really nice about these new
experiences is that it puts us in a

Ana Pinczuk: different frame, and we learn to be
comfortable in those different frames.

Joy Chik: We need to be comfortable with the
uncomfortable.

Joy Chik: Welcome back to Joy of Reinvention. I'm
your host, Joy Chik.

Joy Chik: If you're new here, please subscribe to
this channel.

Joy Chik: Today we're talking about how to stay
curious when you've been the expert for a

Joy Chik: long time. I have spent much of my career
being rewarded for knowing.

Joy Chik: Knowing how to read a, a situation,
knowing how to recognize a pattern,

Joy Chik: and knowing when to make a decision.

Joy Chik: Experience gives us speed, but lately I
have been wondering whether experience

Joy Chik: can quietly create its own kind of
blindness.

Joy Chik: And this has become especially visible to
me as I now trying to think more like

Joy Chik: an investor and advisor to early stage
startups these days.

Joy Chik: In addition to expertise, it really
requires curiosity,

Joy Chik: and that is easy to say, much harder to
practice.

Joy Chik: And perhaps one of the hardest forms of
reinvention is learning to interrupt

Joy Chik: the speed of our own expertise. So my
guest today is Ana Pinczuk.

Joy Chik: Ana and I got to know each other through
our work on the board of trustees at

Joy Chik: AnitaB.org.

Joy Chik: And today, Ana is President and Chief
Product and a Technology Officer at

Joy Chik: SentinelOne, and has served on several
public company and a nonprofit boards.

Joy Chik: What I've always admired about Ana is that
despite the depths of her

Joy Chik: experience, she always remains deeply
curious. So

Joy Chik: Ana, a warm welcome to Joy of Reinvention.

Ana Pinczuk: Hi, Joy. It's so great to be here, and
thank you for having me.

Ana Pinczuk: Um, what an adventure. So love to be here.

Joy Chik: Wow, Ana, you are actually my first remote
guest,

Joy Chik: so I think we're already a bit curious
getting on this ride together.

Ana Pinczuk: We'll make it work.

Joy Chik: We'll make it work.

Joy Chik: So as you know, as I graduate from
Microsoft,

Joy Chik: I'm trying to learn to become an investor
and advisor, especially for startups.

Joy Chik: Uh, first, you know, being a operator for
s—

Joy Chik: almost three decades, I always do, like, a
pattern recognition,

Joy Chik: and then think about how to, you know,
basically make decisions based on the

Joy Chik: patterns I've seen.

Joy Chik: What I learned from being a investor, they
actually don't care about the ideas.

Joy Chik: They actually care about the founder, and
they trying to see if the founder can

Joy Chik: learn and pivot versus somehow the

Joy Chik: idea is the idea.

Joy Chik: So Ana, tell me a moment you thought
about, you know,

Joy Chik: how to make a decision or give an advice,

Joy Chik: and then turned out to be utterly wrong.

Ana Pinczuk: One thing that I find interesting, Joy, is
that when we're at a large company,

Ana Pinczuk: or even if we've been at many large
companies, we do see patterns,

Ana Pinczuk: and more importantly, I think we make
assumptions, right?

Ana Pinczuk: So we assume that this pattern is gonna
result in this outcome.

Ana Pinczuk: And when I started to talk to startups,
several things that I learned.

Ana Pinczuk: One is that I couldn't really make
assumptions about, like,

Ana Pinczuk: a business or an opportunity the same way
that I would in a, in a large company.

Ana Pinczuk: One example is just, like, just
understanding the business itself, right?

Ana Pinczuk: Where, where the founder is trying to take
this business.

Ana Pinczuk: In one case, for example, I talked to a
founder and he said to me, he said,

Ana Pinczuk: "Ana, you know, I have this

Ana Pinczuk: great opportunity."

Ana Pinczuk: He showed me the opportunity, and he says,

Ana Pinczuk: "Already we've got $40 million of
bookings, you know, and so we're, like,

Ana Pinczuk: really going forward." And based on that,
you know,

Ana Pinczuk: I made an assumption that was like, geez,
that's pretty advanced,

Ana Pinczuk: both in the product and in the market.

Ana Pinczuk: And when I started to give him advice, I
realized, you know what?

Ana Pinczuk: He doesn't really know what a booking is,
like, a real booking, you know?

Ana Pinczuk: And I don't, I don't mean to put down any
knowledge, right? It's that, like—

Ana Pinczuk: my understanding of a booking was a very
refined, you know,

Ana Pinczuk: like the deal is in and we've got the
customer, now we have to revenue it,

Ana Pinczuk: right?

Ana Pinczuk: And his idea of a booking was we've got a
letter of intent, you know, from a,

Ana Pinczuk: from a customer.

Ana Pinczuk: Th— that's like a little simple case, but
it's...

Ana Pinczuk: It really helped me understand, okay, I
have to start listening more.

Ana Pinczuk: I need to start asking more questions, and
I really need

Ana Pinczuk: to understand where the founder is, you
know, in their, in their journey.

Ana Pinczuk: And by the way, I need to really respect
the knowledge that they have.

Ana Pinczuk: 'Cause being a founder, they know a lot
about whatever they're founding,

Ana Pinczuk: you know, their thing, their idea.

Ana Pinczuk: I have to honor and respect that while
also trying to figure out, okay, well,

Ana Pinczuk: they don't really know much about, like,
this business aspect,

Ana Pinczuk: so this is where I can add a little value,

Ana Pinczuk: and they can really add value in helping
me understand their idea, right?

Ana Pinczuk: So it's a little bit of reframing for
myself.

Joy Chik: You know, uh, I, I kinda chuckle a little
bit because a parallel but a

Joy Chik: different, uh, experience for me was, um,
I'm on the, as a, uh,

Joy Chik: investor advisor for Nyca, which is one of
the fintech VC in New York.

Joy Chik: So they were asking me, say, "Hey, like,
uh,

Joy Chik: do you want to do some panel to help
founders?"

Joy Chik: I say, "Yeah, of course." They were

Joy Chik: talking about, uh, how to help them build
the team, right?

Joy Chik: So my typical operator mode, I was
thinking, "Oh, building the team," like,

Joy Chik: you know, how do you set the vision, how
to get people come together,

Joy Chik: how do you get the team aligned, all that
sorts of things.

Joy Chik: And it turns out one of the top questions
is founders was having a really

Joy Chik: trouble to actually even fire somebody.

Ana Pinczuk: That's right.

Joy Chik: Which just never even occurred to me.

Joy Chik: And, like, I'm not saying firing somebody's
easy, but just never occurred to me.

Joy Chik: They may not gone through an experiences
like that,

Joy Chik: and it didn't just even occur to me to
first ask the question to say, "Hey,

Joy Chik: what kind of challenges, uh, is the top of
your mind?"

Joy Chik: You know? I just went on, like, almost the
opposite direction to start.

Ana Pinczuk: Yeah, because you have a certain
experience base, right?

Ana Pinczuk: And they haven't had those experiences.

Ana Pinczuk: And so I know part of it for me has been,
like, really trying to think about,

Ana Pinczuk: like, those

Ana Pinczuk: early years and what did I know and not
know and not assume, right?

Ana Pinczuk: It's just kind of where they are in their
journey.

Joy Chik: So Ana, was there a specific moment that
you realized your experience was

Joy Chik: actually getting in the way of hearing or
understanding someone?

Ana Pinczuk: Yeah, I mean, I think there, there is, you
know,

Ana Pinczuk: and what I attribute it to is really
having to think and put yourself in the

Ana Pinczuk: shoes of this other individual.

Ana Pinczuk: The founder is maybe earlier in career.

Ana Pinczuk: They haven't had necessarily the
experience that I have had,

Ana Pinczuk: and so I think for me, what I try to do is
put myself in kinda what I was like,

Ana Pinczuk: you know, a, a bunch of years ago without
that experience and really try to

Ana Pinczuk: honor that what they know and what they
don't know.

Ana Pinczuk: You know, sort of take that, listen to
them a bit,

Ana Pinczuk: try to get a sense for where are they in
the journey, right,

Ana Pinczuk: and really trying to

Ana Pinczuk: listen for the situation and have a little
bit more situational awareness.

Joy Chik: I think the hardest part is, especially
with an experienced operator, is—

Joy Chik: it is hard for us to not go from hearing
something and then we very quickly

Joy Chik: then say, "Okay, now I see the pattern, so
I want to jump to solutioning or

Joy Chik: giving advice."

Joy Chik: So Ana, to try to not be the expert, not
to assume,

Joy Chik: we have to make some bold choices.

Joy Chik: And, uh, to me, the bold choice is how to
let go the certainty and then trying

Joy Chik: to be curious again.

Joy Chik: So tell me a story that you have to let go
your operator, the expert hat,

Joy Chik: and then really trying to pause, listen,
and be curious again.

Ana Pinczuk: I actually went to work for a startup a
few years ago after doing advisory for

Ana Pinczuk: quite a few startups, and this was a
startup in robotics and

Ana Pinczuk: hard tech. Now, I have to say that I
actually studied robotics in college.

Ana Pinczuk: That was my major, so I was, like, super
enthusiastic, you know,

Ana Pinczuk: to go and get into robotics.

Ana Pinczuk: But after many years, over 20 years, I
realized as I took this journey that the

Ana Pinczuk: field had evolved a lot, right? And so I,
I was a newbie again.

Ana Pinczuk: I asked the CEO, I said, "Look, you know,
let's go to the whiteboard.

Ana Pinczuk: I'm gonna share with you what I think I
know,

Ana Pinczuk: and then you come with me to the
whiteboard and tell me, like,

Ana Pinczuk: where I'm messing up here, 'cause my
assumptions are wrong," right?

Ana Pinczuk: That was sort of my way of pausing.

Ana Pinczuk: It kind of forced me to, like, be
vulnerable somewhat, to say, like, "Look,

Ana Pinczuk: this is what I know and I don't know." It
allowed me that time, you know, to,

Ana Pinczuk: to reflect on what he was doing.

Ana Pinczuk: And at the end of that session, Joy, we
had a whole...

Ana Pinczuk: Like, think about a whole room and a whole
whiteboard done.

Ana Pinczuk: That was our way of

Ana Pinczuk: pausing, reflecting, and frankly getting a
sense of whether we were on the same

Ana Pinczuk: wavelength and what we could impart to
each other.

Joy Chik: You know, I love that. Like, a, a few
things.

Joy Chik: One is, I have to say, whiteboarding is
super scary.

Joy Chik: It kind of feels vulnerable, because
you're really out there trying to say,

Joy Chik: "This is what I know."

Joy Chik: But what I love about it is you basically
say, "Hey,

Joy Chik: these might be my assumptions, what I
think I know," so almost like challenge

Joy Chik: my assumptions. So kind of put yourself
out there.

Joy Chik: And we do feel vulnerable, especially
after being, like,

Joy Chik: the expert or being operator for so many
decades, and especially if you...

Joy Chik: We all have a, you know, have the fancy
title.

Joy Chik: I feel like those moments of how do we now
be a beginner again,

Joy Chik: put ourselves th—

Joy Chik: out there, don't just assume we are the
expert, uh, it's something to practice,

Joy Chik: but also be able to just say, "Tell me if

Joy Chik: I'm right," I think give others permission
to challenge our assumption.

Ana Pinczuk: I agree, Joy, and I think also it brings a
level of authenticity and grounding

Ana Pinczuk: to that relationship, too.

Ana Pinczuk: Because we've been at these large
companies with fancy titles, you know,

Ana Pinczuk: there's an expectation sometimes that
there's, like, a,

Ana Pinczuk: "You're the power broker, and this is the
person that's learning from you,"

Ana Pinczuk: right?

Ana Pinczuk: And in reality, it does require that level
of humility.

Ana Pinczuk: You're, you're at the same level as
somebody else,

Ana Pinczuk: and I think that's been the magic.

Ana Pinczuk: For me, that's been really magical about
this n— new knowing, right?

Ana Pinczuk: Is that permission to kind of start all
over,

Ana Pinczuk: and that's how you bring in this new
knowledge, right?

Ana Pinczuk: You're not gonna learn unless you put
yourself at this new level, right?

Ana Pinczuk: And give others permission to kinda teach
you also.

Joy Chik: Yeah, you're so spot on.

Joy Chik: As I was listening to you, like, a part of
me, like, uh,

Joy Chik: as I reflect on just the, you know, you
know, I'm

Joy Chik: doing this podcast, and in doing so in a
public way, it feels super vulnerable.

Joy Chik: But you mentioned something about that
humbleness, and, uh, which is,

Joy Chik: I feel sometimes it's harder to say, oh,
be humble.

Joy Chik: And you can say be humble, but until you
try something completely new and you

Joy Chik: put yourself out there, be completely
vulnerable, now I feel like, hey,

Joy Chik: when I advise, like, a startup founder, I
can try to relate a little bit more

Joy Chik: how hard it is to do something from zero
to one,

Joy Chik: to build something without backing of a
big company brand behind them,

Joy Chik: to trying to navigate what's that product
fit look like.

Joy Chik: You know, do all those customer
interviews, while customers are...

Joy Chik: They don't want to talk to you. They are
busy as well.

Joy Chik: So that humbleness, that empathy, but also
the patience, the vulnerability,

Joy Chik: kind of just, you know, that curiosity,
learning by doing, be a beginner, like,

Joy Chik: uh, super resonate with me these days, uh,
by simply just try something new.

Ana Pinczuk: Yeah, I love that in you, Joy, and I think
that's what makes you an attractive,

Ana Pinczuk: you know, advisor, and, you know, that's
what's gonna give you so much more of

Ana Pinczuk: an edge, right?

Ana Pinczuk: Because people wanna work with people that
not only are knowledgeable, right,

Ana Pinczuk: but that are, uh, aware, right, of the
circumstance. And so you— you're—

Ana Pinczuk: you've got both, right, which is great.

Joy Chik: Ah, thank you. Um, so Ana, so w—

Joy Chik: I mean, think that's why I love you too
because you always bring that curious

Joy Chik: mind.

Joy Chik: I think you always actually challenge me
each time when I talk to you, say,

Joy Chik: "Hey, Joy, are you thinking about doing
something different,

Joy Chik: and what's that look like?" And then even
when I told you back in December

Joy Chik: during the holidays, I was talking about
the podcast, trying to do advising,

Joy Chik: and I think your encouragement is like,
"Why not try something different?

Joy Chik: Uh, what to lose." So Ana, why as you've
been always so

Joy Chik: humble, always trying to, you know, don't
assume your assumption,

Joy Chik: even with all your, you know, decades of
experience,

Joy Chik: how did you become who you are?

Ana Pinczuk: Mm-hmm.

Joy Chik: Like, what does it take to do that
transformation,

Joy Chik: and does the process also change the who
you are as a person?

Ana Pinczuk: You know, I, um, had a similar experience
to maybe what you're going through

Ana Pinczuk: because I had worked for AT&T, a very
large company many decades ago,

Ana Pinczuk: and a very formative experience that I had
was when I went from AT&T to Cisco.

Ana Pinczuk: At that time, Cisco was like a, you know,
kind of a growing company.

Ana Pinczuk: This is around two...

Ana Pinczuk: the year 2000.

Ana Pinczuk: And I went from being, like, frankly, you
know, in charge of lots of things.

Ana Pinczuk: I had a, you know, like, lots of
responsibilities.

Ana Pinczuk: I thought I was really, like, a big shot,

Ana Pinczuk: and then suddenly when I went to Cisco, I
had to kind of start all over.

Ana Pinczuk: That was a big moment for me

Ana Pinczuk: because that taught me, like, oh my God,
I'm either gonna survive here at Cisco

Ana Pinczuk: and listen to this new culture and the
Silicon Valley way,

Ana Pinczuk: and titles don't matter, and it was all
about requisitions,

Ana Pinczuk: and people tell you things in your face.

Ana Pinczuk: It was like a very different culture than
the proper culture that I had had in

Ana Pinczuk: my prior company. And frankly, AT&T had
called me to come back.

Ana Pinczuk: They're like, "Oh, come back," and I was
this close.

Ana Pinczuk: I was like, "It's so much easier to go
back.

Ana Pinczuk: I know, like, how things work," right? Um,
and so that to me was a pivl—

Ana Pinczuk: pivotal moment.

Ana Pinczuk: I ended up spending, uh, 14 years at
Cisco,

Ana Pinczuk: so I kind of feel like I survived it, you
know? But that was a big lesson.

Ana Pinczuk: It also taught me that every new role that
I took from that...

Ana Pinczuk: from there on, and I've been at several
companies—

Ana Pinczuk: it taught me to go into those new roles
both with, uh, you know, kind

Ana Pinczuk: of knowledge of what I bring, but no
assumptions.

Ana Pinczuk: You know, no assumptions about how that
knowledge is gonna inform this new

Ana Pinczuk: opportunity, right?

Ana Pinczuk: That in a sense, I have to have that
openness and open mind and curiosity.

Ana Pinczuk: It was really that first experience that
taught me that to have much more of an

Ana Pinczuk: open mind, to listen a lot more, to be a
little bit more humble as well.

Joy Chik: I think you've been super humble.

Joy Chik: You are super successful at Cisco, and
then,

Joy Chik: then afterwards you actually did a bunch
of, uh,

Joy Chik: different other high profile roles as
well.

Joy Chik: The part I get, I, like, I picked up
especially is I had a big title at

Joy Chik: Microsoft, had a, a successful, really big
job.

Joy Chik: And then these days as I advise the
startup founder, the one clear thing is,

Joy Chik: you know, at my Microsoft job I have all
these meetings.

Joy Chik: People just come to the meeting because I
come... or I call for a meeting.

Ana Pinczuk: Right.

Joy Chik: These days I'd be very...

Joy Chik: at least I'm very grounded to know, you
know, founders don't have time

Joy Chik: to waste f— on you.

Ana Pinczuk: Yeah.

Joy Chik: You don't just say you are advising.

Joy Chik: If you have nothing to offer, they just
gonna stop meeting you.

Joy Chik: So, like, every interaction needs to be
earned.

Ana Pinczuk: No, very, very much so, and it's, it's,
like,

Ana Pinczuk: really shifting from it's all about me
'cause I've got this title and I get to-

Joy Chik: Exactly.

Ana Pinczuk: right, to, like, it's all about you, and
if I understand you as a founder,

Ana Pinczuk: what your needs are, right, then what's in
my bag of tricks s—

Ana Pinczuk: that I can bring that might be helpful to
you?

Joy Chik: Sometimes, like, uh, my brain kinda works
like, "Oh,

Joy Chik: I think I have all the information, so I'm
ready to, you know,

Joy Chik: draw that conclusion." So, like, I don't
know if you find that way.

Joy Chik: Like, how do you make yourself to always
ask one more question, right?

Joy Chik: You listened, but then you paused and you
listen. But I think it...

Joy Chik: listen itself is step one.

Joy Chik: I think you still have to ask more
questions before you trying to

Joy Chik: respond.

Joy Chik: So how do you create those relevant one
more questions to help you to

Joy Chik: recalibrate or refine your assumption?

Ana Pinczuk: You know, a big portion of it is being
transparent with trying to figure out

Ana Pinczuk: what— would be most useful to that person.

Ana Pinczuk: I sometimes am in a conversation with a
founder, we get to a point,

Ana Pinczuk: maybe I feel like, okay, I should be
giving some advice on the go-to-market or

Ana Pinczuk: on the product or whatever, but then I,
I'm very explicit to say like,

Ana Pinczuk: "What would be most useful to you, right,
at this point in,

Ana Pinczuk: in sort of where you are on this journey?"

Ana Pinczuk: Sometimes I'm surprised, you know, that I
think they're talking to me because

Ana Pinczuk: of X, but it's really more Y.

Ana Pinczuk: I, I tend to be very, uh, transparent and
straightforward, Joy,

Ana Pinczuk: and maybe what has helped me is to say,
"Look, I just wanna make

Ana Pinczuk: sure that I'm being helpful to you,"
right?

Ana Pinczuk: And that sometimes allows them to say,
"Well, you know, as I talk to you,

Ana Pinczuk: you know, it'd be really great to figure
out how to hire people," you know,

Ana Pinczuk: or whatever.

Ana Pinczuk: Then I realize, okay, I had certain
assumptions,

Ana Pinczuk: but it takes it to a different place.

Joy Chik: And I would even say that, like what you
said is how to be helpful to a founder.

Joy Chik: Uh, this is actually good advice, how to
be helpful to a friend.

Ana Pinczuk: Right.

Joy Chik: Sometimes we also project ourselves to our
friends.

Joy Chik: We project ourself to, you know, our
colleagues, right?

Joy Chik: Like, I love what you said, sometimes you
just, before you try to jump to help,

Joy Chik: like, uh, how to, like, set the base
ground to say, "Hey, like,

Joy Chik: what do you need? How am I here to support
you better?"

Ana Pinczuk: Yeah.

Joy Chik: Uh, and then listen.

Ana Pinczuk: I agree.

Ana Pinczuk: I had one funny interaction even last week
where I really thought I was talking

Ana Pinczuk: to a founder and that they wanted my
advice, but what

Ana Pinczuk: they really wanted to do was just, like...

Ana Pinczuk: It wasn't venting, but it was just...

Ana Pinczuk: It was really to tell me what was going
on.

Ana Pinczuk: And then at the end of that conversation,
they said, "Oh,

Ana Pinczuk: I'm so glad you listened, you know?"

Joy Chik: Mm-hmm.

Ana Pinczuk: "I really wanted to...

Ana Pinczuk: Like, that helped me work through the
issue." And I realized, okay,

Ana Pinczuk: I'm only here so that they could kinda
work through the issue.

Ana Pinczuk: I wasn't gonna provide any more advice
necessarily.

Ana Pinczuk: So you never know, right, how, how it's
gonna come out.

Joy Chik: Yeah, and sometimes people just want you
to listen.

Joy Chik: They don't actually want advice first. I
mean, not always, but sometimes.

Joy Chik: But like you said, you have to know what
that person actually needs at the

Joy Chik: moment, and the more we kind of recognize
that, then you can give better advice.

Joy Chik: And the, the... I call it intentional
listening.

Joy Chik: It's not about set aside our experiences.

Joy Chik: It's actually about, we talk about slowing
down,

Joy Chik: pause before we start to jump into
diagnosing for others.

Joy Chik: The whole reinvention here is learning to
interrupt our speed of our own

Joy Chik: expertise.

Ana Pinczuk: Part of it is giving ourselves the
permission to not necessarily have to say

Ana Pinczuk: anything, right?

Ana Pinczuk: And there is a pressure to being, like,
the big boss in some sense, that you,

Ana Pinczuk: like, here the big boss is gonna proclaim,
you know?

Ana Pinczuk: And in some sense, I think what's really
nice about these new experiences is

Ana Pinczuk: that it puts us in a different frame and,
and we lea—

Ana Pinczuk: we learn to be comfortable in those
different frames.

Joy Chik: We need to be comfortable with the
uncomfortable. Sometimes we say that.

Ana Pinczuk: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Joy Chik: So Ana, I want to close with one more
question for you.

Joy Chik: So what keeps you curious these days?

Joy Chik: And, uh, maybe you can say, where do you
want to become a beginner most?

Ana Pinczuk: I think the advent of AI and...

Ana Pinczuk: is, is really what keeps me very curious
these days, um, in several ways.

Ana Pinczuk: One is that it's really lowered the
barrier to entry, I think, for do—

Ana Pinczuk: for doing a lot of things.

Ana Pinczuk: So, like, if I thought I wasn't going to
be a good developer, and frankly,

Ana Pinczuk: I've never thought I was a great
developer, you know?

Ana Pinczuk: I feel like, "Oh my goodness, you know, I
can use Claude," or, you know,

Ana Pinczuk: use your favorite, you know, tool and
start to do development.

Ana Pinczuk: That, I found to be super stimulating.

Ana Pinczuk: The other thing that keeps me curious is
just thinking about what's next,

Ana Pinczuk: not just in my job, but a lot of it is
sort of...

Ana Pinczuk: is there's an element of give back.

Ana Pinczuk: You know, like, what can I do with all
this knowledge,

Ana Pinczuk: what I have and what I don't have? How do
I give back in some way?

Joy Chik: Ana, thank you so much.

Ana Pinczuk: Yeah.

Joy Chik: I loved our conversation. I really
appreciate you coming.

Ana Pinczuk: Thank you so much. It's been

Ana Pinczuk: wonderful. I really enjoyed it.

Joy Chik: As I reflected on my conversation with
Ana,

Joy Chik: I kept thinking about just how easily
experience can harden into certainty.

Joy Chik: We recognize a pattern, reach for the
answer, and then miss what does not fit.

Joy Chik: Ana reminded me that staying curious is
not about pretending to know less.

Joy Chik: It is about holding what we know lightly
enough to ask one more question,

Joy Chik: and sometimes to become a beginner again.

Joy Chik: And this feels personal as I move from
being an operator to investor and

Joy Chik: advisor.

Joy Chik: And as an operator, my instinct is to
create clarity,

Joy Chik: and now I'm learning that sometimes my
most useful contribution is to create

Joy Chik: space for another person to think,

Joy Chik: for new evidence

Joy Chik: to emerge, and for my own mind to change.
This does not make experience smaller.

Joy Chik: It makes experience more generous.

Joy Chik: Today's conversation leaves me with some
shared wisdoms.

Joy Chik: First, one truth to remember: expertise
can help us see faster.

Joy Chik: Curiosity helps us see again. Second, one
practice to try.

Joy Chik: When you think you know the answer, pause
and ask one more question.

Joy Chik: And third, when was the last time that you
felt completely certain?

Joy Chik: Now, you want to re-examine that
assumption.

Joy Chik: These are not instructions to become less
experienced.

Joy Chik: These are the invitations to let
experience stay alive,

Joy Chik: and maybe that is reinvention.

Joy Chik: Not knowing less, but knowing differently.
This is Joy of Reinvention, and I'm

Joy Chik: Joy Chik.

Joy Chik: If today's conversation resonated with
you, please subscribe,

Joy Chik: share with someone who might be ready to
see something different.

Joy Chik: You can also join our community at
joyofreinvention.com/email.

Joy Chik: And until next time, know the moment,
choose boldly, keep reinventing,

Joy Chik: and share the wisdom.